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Dialogue on Faith
Edited by Chu Mangoba


This article refers to the controversial topic of religious freedom, one of the constitutional rights guaranteed in democratic societies, which ironically is considered taboo in RDL discussions. I have to change the title in the hope of removing any allergic reaction associated with the word religion.

Religious discussion can be objective and constructive if only each one appreciates the purpose of discussion that is to break up or dissect the subject matter to understand each part better and make the fragmented understanding whole. The more incisive the discussion or study is, the sharper or more clear-cut our mental perception and understanding of the whole subject. There would be no wars or conflicts in the world if we have a continuous dialogue on the sharing of a universal faith - the faith in one God, the loving and merciful God.

My favorite analogy is that a discussion is like the turbulence created by the propeller of a ship or airplane. The turbulence is actually the reaction of the water or the air to the motion of the propeller that eventually causes locomotion of the ship or the airplane.

The dialogue on religion was first brought up by Fred Santos. He posted the following message on Jan. 18, 2000 on the subject of Catholicism and the Wealth of Nations:

"I am writing to correct some misconceptions regarding the link between
Catholicism and economic well-being.

"First, the world's largest three economies are not predominantly Catholic. The United States is around 58% Protestant and 26% Catholic; Germany is 35% Protestant and 34% Catholic; and Japan, whose postwar rise to prosperity is unparalleled, is 85% Shintoist and Buddhist and no more than 1% Christian.

"Second, the Philippines is the only Catholic country in Asia. Several other Asian countries exhibit superior economic performance, as measured in terms of GDP per capita, for example. These countries - among them South Korea, Malaysia, Thailand, and Taiwan, in addition to Japan - have populations that are predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Confucian, or Taoist.

"Third, as Max Weber writes in 'The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism', Catholicism emphasizes religious contemplation and the afterlife. Protestantism, on the other hand, values hard work, thrift, and efficiency. Because of this ethic, Protestant nations saw previously unknown advances in science and technology and an unprecedented accumulation of capital. Thus, Protestantism is responsible for the rise of modern science and capitalism."

Delia Famatigan responded: "Louie Pasteur, the 'Father of Bacteriolory' (a devoted Catholic) was one of our greatest scientists. While in a train going to a place where he was invited to speak among the scientists of the wonders of microbiology, a student from a well-known university was sitting beside him. The student noticed him praying the rosary in silence so many times. The student asked him why he was doing that and said that he should study the modern technologies and the new discoveries of the time. The student said that he should stop praying the rosary and aspire for more advance education. He did not stop ...he told about the discoveries of microbiology and mentioned the name of that 'genius of bacteria'. Pasteur just listened to him and his stories. When they parted Pasteur gave the student his calling card. The student looked at him in wonder and he cried. This student became one of his great colleagues.

"Whenever Pasteur gave talks in scientific meetings he always acknowledged
that his discoveries were God given and he was just used by God to let God's
glory known.

"God blesses all peoples regardless of their religious faith. That is how God
loves us. God even cares for those who says they are atheist."

Minnie Festin-Navato wrote: "Modern science was started by Copernicus and Galileo who were both Catholics. Of course, the Catholic religion also emphasized industry but never promised wealth in this life. I admit that Christianity emphasized greater value in the everlasting life, not in the present life. But they also did emphasize hard work. The Catholic religion teaches that sloth is one of the cardinal sins. Religion is not really equated with wealth in life. In many cases, wealth is a hindrance to eternal life."

Doc Simp retorted: "Copernicus laid the foundation of modern astronomy by assuming the earth's diurnal rotation and postulating a sun-centered universe
- a position that challenged both ancient science and religious dogma. Galileo embraced the Copernican view of the universe with the earth moving around the sun. This was declared a heresy by Pope Pius V. Galileo defiled the pope by making his views even more explicit. As a result he was brought to the inquisition at the age of 70. Recanting his views publicly, he was reported to have muttered, ' even so the earth does move.' Galileo in his remaining years was silenced by the Church.

"What an irony! Well, perhaps Copernicus and Galileo are good candidates for sainthood?"

Fred Santos rebutted: "Of course there are Catholic scientists but anecdotes are not sufficient to refute the basic facts that I presented. I wonder, who is this 'student from a well-known university' who "became one of [Pasteur's] great colleagues?" Incidentally, Galileo became a victim of the Inquisition for his defense of Copernican theory."

Religion became a hot topic after the 9/11 tragedy. Minnie Festin-Navato wrote on Sept. 25, 2001: "I am not an expert on Islam but what I hear is this. This is my speculation. Islam, as interpreted by the fundamentalists, states that its followers are rewarded by going to heaven if they kill the enemies of Allah.

"Christianity, on the other hand, pays tribute to its followers who get killed for not renouncing their religion. They are our martyrs and go straight to heaven.

"It seems to me that Bin Laden and his followers often invoke the term 'holy
war' because they think they can get support from the zealous Muslims. As
Bush said, 'We are not carrying out this war for religious reasons. We are
just after those who do criminal acts'.

"Were the intended victims in the World Trade Center holocaust the enemies of
Allah? So many Muslims were among the victims.

"Is America the enemy of Allah? There are so many Arab-Americans and mosques here. We consider them as part of us."

There was a lively discussion at first. Later, the discussion on religion turned hot and so there were suggestions to minimize discussions of sensitive topics such as religion, politics and sex. Max Fabella wrote on June12, 2002:

"I was wondering, if I could suggest we should minimize discussions of the
3 taboo/controversial subjects: religion, politics, and sex. Nobody wants censorship. I would like to throw the suggestion to the to the pot, and would invite contrary opinion? The 3 general topics, seems to invite 'passion' in our listers. Just an idea."

Minnie Festin-Navato quickly responded: "Religion and politics are topics people are very much interested in. If people want to talk about them, let them. If it arouses their passion, well and good. That shows it is important to them. That's why they are passionate about it. Give them a chance to talk about their passions. So long as there is no dirty fighting and does not incite hatred or attempts to deliberately hate one another, what's wrong with that?

"Discussions which include politics and religion are exciting and stimulating. If we limit our RDL discussion to happy birthday greetings and praising the Philippines and Romblon, 'bale wala ang RDL' (translated as RDL would be worthless).

"When I read newspapers, I am inclined to skip the society pages and sports. I lean more towards the editorials and the front-pages because they help shape the course of human events. Discussions of any topic are healthy and
stimulating. It broadens one's mind and exposes one to other people's way of thinking and personal feelings."

Delia also disagreed with the taboo proposition of Max Fabella. She wrote: "If you do not like these topics just please delete them. This RDL duscussions will be too boring if we do not discuss religion and politics."

As moderator, Doc Simp invoked the principle locally known as "patugsiling" or the so-called ethic of reciprocity or the "Golden Rule" to remind listers to be considerate of others' feelings on their religious beliefs.

Chu Mangoba explained the meaning of "patugsiling":

"English synonyms of 'patugsiling' are the words consideration, empathy, sympathy and tolerance. Consideration is thoughtful concern for others. Empathy is identification with and understanding of the situation, feelings and motives of others. Sympathy is the act of sharing or understanding the feelings of others. Tolerance is recognizing and respecting the opinions, practices of behavior of others. 'Patugsiling' is the derivative of the 'Golden Rule' which means doing unto others what you want others do unto you. In other words, be considerate unto others as you want others to be considerate unto you."

There were heated discussions of the taboo proposition but they are not featured in this Dialogue to let bygones be bygones. However, suppressing ideas on faith or religion may not be good for RDL in the long run.

Faith is part of our culture so we can't close our eyes, our ears and our hearts on its essence to our physical and spiritual existence. Faith can move mountains so it can also move hearts of stone or minds of prejudice. It is religion that teaches us the virtues of faith, hope and charity. We, therefore, need religion to nourish us with spiritual power in accomplishing our "sanrokan" mission.


The editor of this Dialogue is a Board of Director of RDL-CLEAR.